Rep. Peter Meijer: This is the only way to fix a broken Congress | Ben Domenech Podcast

Rep. Peter Meijer: This is the only way to fix a broken Congress | Ben Domenech Podcast

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Peter thanks so much for taking the time To join me today oh my pleasure thanks For having me on Ben I know this is the First time that we've had kind of a Significant conversation about politics And other issues but Um I wanted to start off by just sort of Saying you know you've obviously been Someone who's been Got who's gotten a lot of heat in terms Of your experience in politics and I Wondered if uh that heat that you've Experienced has soured you on American Politics in general Um I think it's a hard thing to go Through in terms of of being someone who Even puts your hat in the ring in the First place in this day and age knowing What it can mean for the way that your Family and friends can get attention is American politics something that you are Sort of done with or is it something Where you feel like there's a future Where you could make a comeback oh yeah I'm certainly not done Um you know my my experience was Certainly brief but full of passionate Intensity you know I think I personally am not turned off by it I Mean I it was sad to see some of my Colleagues do the mental calculation of Just you know where did they have to tow A certain line because they knew the Pressure uh might be too much for their

Family my wife and I are expecting our First actually about two weeks but I'm Blessed to have a very uh stubborn and And strong wife who doesn't Doesn't look at you know negative Criticisms or or even you know when Things spill over from from social media Into kind of real world threats Um you know if anything we kind of find That galvanizing but at the same time You know somebody compare being a a Politician or an elected official to Being in the eye of the hurricane you Know you you Experience something but it's really Nothing compared to those around you who Are getting hit by the wall and and I Think that's unfortunate I think that That causes a lot of really good people To decide not to get in Um and maybe has a perverse incentive in Terms of some people loving that fight And wanting to get in uh and then very Little of that has any cross-pollination With just doing the actual job as Opposed to you know all of the the brand Building and celebrity status that uh Too many get thrilled by Are you fully prepared for your first Well I I You know having spent three years Between Iraq and Afghanistan you know my Biggest lesson and both of those was Whatever expectations I had going in

Um Which I mean you know you can be as well Prepared but that maybe only gets you 20 So much until you get punched in the Face exactly it's helpful to have a plan We have a plan I feel good about our Plan but you know summer gumpy how would Uh how have you set up the nursery is it All good everything put together oh yes Oh yes did you did you do it yourself or Did you Thumbtack anything Uh totally totally uh um totally Self-reliant there uh I mean it's like Ikea furniture you know it's not hard Are you uh are you I'm just curious Because we've uh because we've done it Uh and and we have a two and a half year Old and a three uh three month almost Three month old Um What is your plan when it comes to sleep Are you going to be the the the night Person are you gonna shift off what's The what's the way that you're Approaching that Yeah I I think in the beginning Well This is also the benefit of not having a Job right now right and having a having A wife who has a job with a maternity Leave Um you know Eventually there's going to be a rhythm That's going to be found right and and I

Think Um I am I'm confident that my wife and I Will be able to balance that you know We've kind of worked out okay what are The co-sleeping Arrangements how we're Going to do that if it becomes sort of a Colicky situation then you know is there A need to kind of have a sleeping Location that maybe is is sufficiently Distant to not um be bound out by the The cries of a poor child Um for the parent who is off duty and Yeah Um but yeah we haven't we haven't worked Out those schedules yet last question Before I get paid back to politics have You have you any clues as to the mood of The baby and by that I just mean has it Been like an an active kicker uh an Active uh sort of uh uh baby or is it More sedate is a little more calm in the Womb because that is having now Experienced both things that is the way They come out in the sense that that if They're active then they're active and If they're Calm and kind of cozy than they are more That well and this is the challenge Right is I don't have a baseline against Switch to compare the activity so Um I'm hoping normal degrees of activity That don't necessarily carry over into Hyperactivity uh on the flip side once Once out of the womb

Um but but certainly you know certainly Plenty of uh plenty of roles plenty of Um you know our first daughter our first Daughter was running a marathon every Day and our second daughter just wants To just wants to be calm and cozy so I Don't blame the mark difference you know I mean that's probably the most Comfortable moment you know any of us Are going to face so yeah Um I I know that it's one of these things Where uh you know you've had all of These different experiences in your life To this point Um but it has to be incredibly Infuriating to see this report put out By the White House last week a week ago Today uh when we're recording this Interview Um you know dumped before a holiday Weekend uh about what went down in Afghanistan uh I know this is this is an Issue that is important to you Personally Something that you care about and Obviously you know have played an active Role in in terms of the policy Arena What are your thoughts on uh what the White House put out what the uh the General consensus is about how things Played out in the Afghanistan exit and What lessons you took from it yeah I mean I'll just start by saying this is

Actually one of the rare issues where I'm very very grateful for the Mainstream media and the fact that Journalists are at large across the Political Spectrum Have shown almost no interest in Carrying the biod administration's water On this yeah and Mark contrast to plenty Other issues but just and part of that I Think was informed during the withdrawal You know they especially larger news Organizations that had an international Bureau you know this wasn't some distant Far-off incident that was totally Removed from them I mean many of those Reporters had rotated through Afghanistan they knew uh you know they Had gotten to know and befriended the The local Nationals who had worked for Their organization either as fixers as Drivers as local journalists uh and so You know they were Hearing in real time From folks who were experiencing it in Real time in contrast with just the the Whitewashing or the the delay of Providing good and information or the Attempts to downplay the severity of What was occurring that was happening Every day in the White House briefing Room and I mean does this NSC report That was put out a I mean this is not a This is not a document meant to be you Know enduring in the historical record This was a political response because

The administration needed to try to Shift the narrative away from their own Culpability and responsibility for how The withdrawal was executed and try to Pin it on the Trump Administration and I was grateful to see that almost Universally it was panned but especially By folks who understood that not just You know journalists or those in the Political Arena but a lot of my friends Who are in you know the political Science kind of international relations Those who were Bonafide experts on the Country Um and and had been studying it for you Know in the American involvement for um You know over a decade just like what The hell is this thing And and I saw this firsthand in both Close to our briefings and and and open Hearings on the hill you know the uh the Incredibly simplistic you know and you Know I was frustrated by some of my Republican colleagues who just said well It was all Biden's fault and that's the You know start and finish of it and then The Democrats are saying it was all Trump's fault and that was a certain Finish of it and I mean the reality is Much more complicated and we can debate The merits of withdrawing but there's no Question that the execution of this Withdrawal will go down as one of the You know greatest indicators of our

Institutional incompetence and and Duplicity uh from a public relations and Communication standpoint and the Inability at Lloyd Austin the Secretary Of fence I think two and a half weeks Ago said he had no regrets with how this Withdrawal was executed uh and also that Nobody had been held accountable in any Way shape or form you know and they Didn't see a need for there to be Accountability now contrast that with Some of our NATO allies yeah Um the Dutch right I was I had a media With the both individual from the Dutch Foreign Ministry and another from the Dutch Ministry defense or notably in the Weeks that followed the withdrawal both Their defense minister and their foreign Minister resigned in shame because they Left behind you know several dozen Individuals who hadn't been interpreters For them and that was an outrage in the Dutch demanded accountability and and They asked me in this meeting like oh do You think there will be accountability On the American side and and I looked at My watch it was 445 I didn't have any Other meetings for that day and I was Like I can't have this conversation Without some whiskey in my hands But but it's I I would be I would respect the individuals Even short of of folks resigning I would

Have so much more respect for members of This Administration if they said listen We made mistakes we should have done This better we should have prepared Better on this end Um we should have started the evacuation Sooner uh we missed these signals and And here's what we're going to do to Make sure it doesn't happen again but We're not getting any of that it's what Are you talking about uh John Kirby Saying I didn't see any chaos you know That wasn't my Ah all right now I think I mean is Biden Going to go back be like actually the Crowd size of my inauguration was a Historic record too I mean like it's It'd be one thing I don't know I I I'm Um yeah it depresses the hell out of me Yeah and I think this is when you you Mentioned you mentioned a couple of Times something that I think is so Important here I talk a lot on my podcast and in other Context about Um the decay of American faith and Institutions And you know I think that A lot of times people will just you know Go back to the Trope of sunlight is the Best disinfectant but the reason that It's asbestos infected is if there is Accountability for what that sunlight

Reveals In our current status I think that what We actually have is we don't have enough Sunlight but then when we get it There aren't any consequences for it Nobody loses their job nobody gets fired Nobody gets uh reamed out in front of a In front of a hearing I mean and in the Rare instances where that does happen You know we've seen a little bit of that With you know Rand Paul's treatment of Anthony fauci and you know a couple of Other you know incidences you know here And there John Kennedy you know interviewing uh Some of these judicial nominees who Don't know Don't seem to be able to remember how Many amendments there are on the Constitution that kind of thing but the Thing that I think is so telling is that Like There are no consequences in today's Washington nobody gets fired nobody has To fall on their sword they just stick It out they just put their heads down And they endure and that I think is Actually the thing that Americans can't Stand because they know that if they Screwed up to that degree in their place Of work they would be fired and Washington just seems immune to that how Does that change what do we do to change That how do we change to a point where

The administrative state is not uh you Know essentially uh Immortal Life for All of these bureaucrats yeah and I'll Just I'll go one further and say the the Threat or the fear of that Accountability also helps on the front End folks say we need to get this right Because if we don't that's Gonna Roll if We don't if there's going to be a Congressional investigation it's all Going to be ripped out in the open but If they know that you know if they're a Democrat and it's a democratic Administration Um you know by and large the media will You know carry a lot of water for them Generally speaking again this being a Rare exception to that but there's also I think a There's there's this this Bat that's being placed on the attention Span of the public that by the time the Truth comes out you know by the time the The LIE is revealed to be what it is or The the spin is revealed to have been as Empty and threadbare as it was uh that Folks will have moved on and you know You see this um just in the the balloon The Chinese five balloon right there was Totally Anonymous sources say that X Y And Z wasn't able to see look we're fine Six months later or six weeks later Actually yeah that wasn't the case um That was totally a lie right but

And I mean I'm more critical uh not that The right Bear's responsibility but I Get frustrated on the right partially Because we can do so much better if we You know the Afghanistan withdrawal Um if the the notion that oh we left 85 Billion worth of equipment behind so 85 Billion is the total amount of of Military Support including training and Assistance you know for the Afghan Security Forces over the entire 20-year War and it was definitely several Billion dollars worth of equipment but If the if the attack is exaggerated then The Democrats and the Divide measures Say well that's not accurate you know That well without addressing the the Underlying substance gives them an easy Out it gives them an easy out and and Now I think um Yeah I I so so let me ask you though About what can be done about this Because this is you know one of my Frustrations is that You know Congress has seeded so much of Its power its unwillingness to use its Power over the purse in ways that are Targeted or that are designed to create Some kind of of consequence or change You know it's been well demonstrated What can the Congress actually do to Make oversight in these areas have some Real teeth I mean it just seems like in The absence of that this only continues

To get worse we continue to see Situations where Um you know as you said you know under Under Democratic Administration Democrat-leaning bureaucrats get away With things the media carries water for Them and there's no you know ultimate Consequences and there's nothing on the Front end either in terms of you know Feeling like we have to get this right Or or there's going to be consequences For this I mean I think back to the Obamacare launch and how many you know How disastrous that was in terms of just Making a functional website you know and And you didn't have you didn't have Consequences for that at that time Either there really were not you know The kind of consequences that you would Have liked to see so whether it's trying To make I mean people get infuriated at A government when they feel like It's asleep at the wheel and you know we Just had this example of you know a Of all things apparently a Massachusetts You know Air National Guard guy you know Going on Discord and leaking things not Out of some like Ambitious you know attempt to change Policy like Edward Snowden did or Something like that but just out of like Wanting to impress his buddies on the on The list at least that seems to me to be The read of it

That kind of thing just makes people Lose faith in these institutions that we Need to have faith in so how can Congress exercise the power that it Ought to be able to have under the Constitution in ways that will lead to Better Behavior by these institutions Well first and foremost you need to Write the imbalance as you pointed out The imbalance between the president and The executive branch and and Congress And legislative branch and I think it's Really acute when it comes to War Powers And when it comes to our military uh and Conflict operations you know the war in Afghanistan the the legal The legal grounding for all of that Activity was in the 2001 authorization For use of military force and and I know Some of my colleagues just want to flat Out repeal it I think there are some uh Necessary authorities that we need to Have renewed but the idea that for the Past two decades not a single member of Congress has had to place an up or down Vote uh and in in and by the way before You get to that vote you don't have Substantive committee hearings you don't Have members asking questions and most Importantly you don't have the Department of Defense having to Articulate an answer to those having to Sharpen those pencils because they need To provide those members with the

Confidence that their they will place a Good vote in an informed vote in that Moment right so when you break down that Entire system you you still have members Who are interested you know on the Margins right you still have you know The occasional hearing around War Powers And authorities but you don't have Members who say I need to understand This and I need the Department of Defense to convince me of their strategy What they're doing for me to continue to Cast a vote in support of this right so When Congress takes its its hands off The wheel and just lets the dod operate On autopilot you know we can make large Changes after a catastrophe or an Outrage but we aren't able to make the Course Corrections that prevent that Catastrophe in the first place you Effectively end up with five-minute Speeches from Tulsi gabbard and Thomas Massey and then the just it goes away You know that's and that's not a way for Congress to function that's not doing Your jobs Um one of the things that I looking back At the history of Congress and and Paying attention to some of the Different changes that were made over The years I'm curious as to your Attitude toward one specific thing that Was done you know back in the 94 Revolution that Newt Gingrich LED you

Know one of the things that was so key About that contract with America that People tend to forget is that most of The changes they made were kind of in Internal functional things you know About the ways that staff was paid and Committees were funded and a bunch of Other things that you know didn't Actually have to do with kind of big Picture things you know people think About in the contract or think about Things like that as being like you know Big Top Line issues and instead no it Was like it was institutional reform Shifts that they made one of the things That is a consequence of that that we Still live with today is that Congressional staffs and the budgets Associated with um are pretty small Especially when you're dealing with you Know the amount of issues that every Member has to deal with do you think That we need to expand those budgets Both to retain good staffers prevent Them from having to go you know get paid By K Street in order to send their kids To college and also to kind of write the Ship when it comes to the relationship That you have with bureaucrats where you Know so much of this business of Actually writing legislation is almost Outsourced to the end entities Themselves as opposed to something That's done internally by staff no I

Think without question you know one of The things that happened in the 1994 Revolution was also diminishing some of The institutional capacity not just on The staff side not just on the committee Side but also entities like the Congressional technology office were Done away with you know I I think of how Much more effective Congress would have Been just on the on the defense and National Security side of the house if Congress had its own intelligence Analysis Bureau so you had people who Were whose job was it to do analysis Rather than trusting the analysis that's Done by the executive branch where There's going to be a strong incentive Not to put forward a finished product That may contradict what the public Statements are of the your boss's boss's Boss's boss right so so Congress is Really at it's especially true on the Classified realm but generally speaking Congress is very much dependent on the Executive branch to provide the Information that we need in order to Make a determination on whether the Executive branch is doing the right Thing or the wrong thing and and if if The executive branch is both writing uh The legislation when it comes to rules And Rule making Authority Administratively right they are they're Crafting much of that policy and then

They're also the ones who are providing Congress with the data uh you know it's No surprise that we've gotten to a point Where you have such an unaccountable Bureaucracy and you know I'm very firmly Of the belief that for every additional Dollar that you put into Congress that They can put into the legislative Function of oversight right for every Dollar you put in there you could Probably take away ten or a hundred Dollars from the executive branch and It's I mean I don't know what the actual Ratio is but legislative versus Executive employees in this country You may not know what that ratio is There yeah yeah I mean it's obscene so You mentioned something there that I Wanted to get to next which is uh the Trust level with the Intel Community Broadly speaking Intel law enforcement Has been something that Really within the last seven or eight Years has completely flipped in terms of Republican voters attitudes toward it Obviously that's mostly due to the Treatment of President Trump but it's Not just due to that it's also it seems To me that due to kind of the Weaponization of this whole uh area Against Republicans generally Um you know the work of people like Adam Schiff and Eric swalwell and people Along those lines who have you know used

This as like a partisan brick bat when It was traditionally uh treated as being Something where look as much as we might Fight on the networks as much as we Might disagree about policy when we get Into these rooms we're being shown the Most important information in the world And the threats that America is facing We take off our red and blue ties and we Actually you know behave Um like like citizens and like gentlemen And so I realize that's an old-fashioned Way of thinking about this but it's Really important How do we get back to the point where Both Americans particularly the Republicans whose distrust is risen Under this period uh can trust these Institutions again Um and how do we do it in a way that Makes it clear that we can't ever go Down the road of having this type of Intel Community Law Enforcement Community weaponization against a an Opposing candidate I mean I can only Imagine the treatment that the bush Cheney Administration would have gotten If they had engaged in that kind of Behavior against Barack Obama you know And it would have been you know just Absolutely a travesty and yet you know When it comes to this it seems like Because Trump is so unique and because He you know uh has so many different uh

Foes and causes so much beef with so Many people the only he he likes the he Likes to fight with everyone at once Um uh that we now are reaching this Point where people don't trust the CIA They don't trust the FBI they don't Trust these people who we need to be Able to trust in order to keep us safe How do we change that yeah I mean I Think it starts with those organizations Not giving so much Grist for the middle Right like I mean I think some of the Criticism is exaggerated but there is Incredible amounts of valid criticism of The way the FBI has conducted itself uh I mean if you especially when you look Towards Um their actions around Any number of of domestic security Incidents and if you have then an Inability to and I'm cute I don't like the phrase both sides but I Love pointing out this is not a you know One side on many of these issues right Maybe a little bit more to blame that There is so much blame to go around that We end up in these scenarios where uh You know chef and swallow will say well Yeah I mean weaponize the house Intelligence committee and and and would Go on TV and say well I can't tell you About all the classified things because I can't portray confidences but just Know that Donald Trump is guilty right

You know they would it would make those Illusions now it would be a lot And then that also forces many of those Um institutions into a really awkward Position you know I mean James Comey uh With Hillary Clinton was probably the Perfect example where now they're in in The best of Worlds they're trying to Avoid the political Spotlight that They're getting dragged into it and then They're fumbling you know they're doing A poor job in the worst of Worlds they Are maybe more primed to believe the Worst of somebody who's their political Adversary and more willing to give a Pass to those who are on their own team I think if there was more transparency Across the board you know I mean you Talk about the classified documents that This uh Texas sorry Maryland Air National Guard Um Airman put out you know we both have Too many things that are classified in Government many of which are oftentimes Are classified Not because it's that sensitive but Because they're trying to avoid external Um external consequences they're trying To avoid criticism if we had a better Pairing of that if there was more Accountability for folks who who didn't Give Congress the documents that needed Uh which I mean Holy I mean it is it's a bad bad bad

Dynamic but a little bit of that is on Members of Congress themselves and on Folks to not fan flames in in ways Because if if I'm a member of the Intelligence community and I know if I Put something out it's you know it's not If it's not going to be read by serious And sober people you know then they Start to hold things back then you have More screw-ups like we're in so many of These Doom Loops where you know you Kind of just have to say we you all Sides need to exhibit some restraint There needs to be some you know Self-policing Um I'm I am very sympathetic to you know Saying listen this was dished out to us We're going to Dish it back and then we Come to an agreement that we're not Doing this anymore right speaker McCarthy did that with ejecting folks From committees uh you know after Nancy Pelosi did that and then had to sit down And say let's have a code of conduct so That we concretize what these rules are So people know them in advance yeah and Well that's something I know uh uh I was Interviewing Nancy Mason I know that's Something that she cares about a great Deal and and Um I think that one of the things that Is One of the things that's really Interesting about this is there is this

There's this incentive in place To Get on and this is something that uh Trey Gowdy and I talked about recently To get on TV to you know get on prime Time to uh uh you know make your point And basically be a hype man for your Side of the aisle That's something that you know as a Member of Congress seems to be a bigger And bigger part of the job as they're Treating it Um I don't like that not just because it Competes with my own air time but Because because I think that it's it's One of these things where that's not What they sent you to do that's not what You're there for it helps you raise Money but it's not the actual job that You're supposed to be doing When Congress doesn't do its job because We have taken away so much power and Responsibility from it it can be hard to Tell when Congress is truly screwing up Right yeah and I'm not talking about the Media portrayal I mean uh American Citizens feeling the consequences of Sending the wrong people to Washington D.C now there are certainly consequences Right I mean look at inflation as a Consequence of a lot of the deficit Spending um during the Biden Administration the American Rescue plan

The inflation production act all of Those pieces of legislation that just Poured and poor cash you know onto the Inflationary fire right but it can be Very hard because we have so much of That removed it can be hard to hold Folks responsible for the consequences Of the actions they undertook which Means it's very easy for them to blame Somebody else and to pass that book Right and then that just perpetuates That cycle you know there's a lot of Folks when I say we need to make Congress more powerful we need to make That a much more significant entity in Our federal government like we'll look At Congress it's it's a it's a joke it's A laughing stock exactly it's that way Because it can be that way Congress can Be an absolute farce and and we can't Really tell the difference and if you Could tell the difference between you Know those members who were serious and Sober in doing something and those who Are just you know don't even have Legislative staffers they're purely Communications oriented if that was felt In the district then they would decide They would make a change to who they Were sending forward but if your idea of Effectiveness of the members how often Do you see them on your favorite Favorite cable program you know then That's going to tilt the incentives and

The way that it has so um I want to ask You uh with the time we have left about Just kind of the general direction of The conservative cause in the country Obviously conservatives Um uh made peace with uh or or Essentially uh came uh to support uh Donald Trump during during his rise and Afterwards even though he did so as Someone who had espoused a lot of views That were not conservative at all they Made their peace with them and they even You know uh worked with them despite you Know in some cases you know being Someone who was personally insulted by Him such as you know people like Ted Cruz you know they've they've figured Out kind of a way to navigate it Now though they face a real decision About whether they want to go through This whole Rodeo again and the 2024 Nomination battle certainly seems like One where you know as I've been saying For for months Trump is the likeliest Nominee That being said there does seem to be Concern that this is a moment Historically in America where people Would like to shift to a new generation We've had three presidents born in the Same year we have a president now who's Older than all three of them Um you know and uh it's one of these Things where you know people just kind

Of are feeling like can we can we move On from this baby boomer stuff is that Even possible Um obviously Kevin McCarthy being you Know the only younger uh uh sort of Leader in the in the current Congress in Terms of uh of his approach uh as uh you Know in opposition to the the Pelosi Schumer McConnell kind of dynamic Do you think that we're actually at a Point where people are eager enough to Move to a younger potential leader for The Republican party or do you think That the dominance that Trump has shown In terms of his uh his political forays Certain within the primary context at Least is going to prevent that I mean I I don't want to make common cause with Folks who just want to return to the Pre-trump GOP right because that was uh That was a listless lacking in energy Um it certainly had had wins right I Don't want to Discount some of those Wins but it didn't necessarily pivot Away from or or it was not something That a rising generation could feel Excited about yeah and and I I reject Fully the dynamic that we either yeah That you know the Trump error was Perfect and there's nothing we should Change or the pre-trump era was perfect And we just need to get back to that Like that that is just not a good die

Cut that's revisionist history But at the same time I I am deathly Fearful of generational unified Democratic control of our government and I think that would be massively Destructive we've already seen what that Has done to us economically through Inflation and imagine what the response To a global cataclysm economically right If we went into a new Great Depression What the total Erasure of of the free Market total Erasure of of any uh Institutions that were not governmental From this country would do to us in the Long term right that that scares the Hell out of me and In order to prevent that you need Republicans who can win competitive Elections right you need Republicans who Can take back well we have taken back The house but it's a perilous majority Yeah uh we need to be able to take back The Senate we need to be able to take Back the White House and I'm uh I I I Think that my frustration on the right Is is that we should have plenty of room For policy disagreements Probably shouldn't be actively telling People not to vote for you or actively Trying to reject people from your party Um I mean we've seen in Arizona uh that Was just not the smartest strategy right It turns out you know Well it turns out that that's that that

You need more votes than than the other Person and if you tell the other person Turns out it turns out in a state where There's there's like an insanely huge Population of Independence that it's not A good idea to tell people not to vote For you but the other reality is you Have folks and uh you have Republicans In our political process for whom Winning and actually having the burden And responsibility of governing uh is is Less favorable to their personal Prospects is is a less tantalizing Proposition than sort of the consequence Free realm of being in the minority you Know the worse things get great the more Angry people will get the more Fundraising I can do the bigger the Brand I can build right so I I I have Um So that I mean that is something we Should fundamentally be rejecting folks Who at the end of the day do not care About points on the board and do not Care about being able to take office and Also thinking not just what am I saying To kind of get my base excited what am I How am I going to preach the best to my Choir but always keeping in mind that Marginal voter because those are the People who are deciding whether or not You're going to win or lose and in my Mind I want to be able to persuade that Marginal voter who maybe is coming into

It disagreeing with me and if I can Change their mind great if I can get Them to say well you know what you know We don't see eye to eye but like I trust This individual I trust how they're Approaching the situation right that's How you're going to win uh maybe not Those elections where the primary is the Only battle because it's a safe seat Democrats have done this on their Redistricts inside Republicans have done This on the redistricting side you know We had in 2000 out of the 435 House Seats 160 of them were within you know a 10 point you know a presidential result It went from 160 to 60 in in this Current redistricting cycle you know and That is only going to mean that when the Democrats are in charge they're going to Go even further to an extreme and when If we can't get to the point where we Are in charge of more than just one Branch We're going to be run rough shot over And we can expect more of the same I'm Not satisfied with that and I think if There were members of the older Generation in the party who felt as Passionately about ultimate victory in a General election Um I would be more than happy to Enthusiastically back them but I do Think it's time for folks to step up and Say we need folks who are going to be

Alive to see the consequences of the Decisions that they're making today I am very interested in getting back to The point where the Coalition of the Right Isn't talking about you know flipping Things based on stuff you know battles Within the 40-yard lines like I want I Want to see them say no we can win 40 States win 40 States if we do this the Right way uh and get back to that as Opposed to just you know uh just giving Up on the idea that that a a true Majoritarian approach Um is not one that they can pursue I Just don't I don't believe it and I Think that there's it's a very limited Vision to just keep battling back and Forth in that narrow space I agree Peter Thank you so much for being so generous With your time it's a pleasure to talk To you no it's a pleasure Ben thank you

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