Will Cain sits down with criminal defense lawyer Mark Geragos following the arraignment of former President Donald Trump. #FoxNews
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Celebrity attorney and now media Mogul Mark garagos who is the owner of Los Angeles magazine along with several Other titles there in Southern California now that you're sort of you Always have been Mark but behind the Curtain you know Um are you a little more forgiving of Your press coverage No I uh actually it's the opposite I'm I'm less forgiving you know and it's Somewhat ironic within uh about five Months of acquiring these titles and my Partner's got some other interests I Actually sued the LA times for some Nonsense reporting that they had engaged In so I am I'm trying to hold various Outlets accountable and I'm trying to Set the stage for will you and I are Both old enough although you're much Younger than me to remember when Journalists the journalists had certain Standards that they were supposed to Meet yeah I saw you're suing the Los Angeles Times over reporting that you Had withheld what some legal fees from Um settlement over the Armenian Genocide Case yeah they really decided to do a Kind of a hit piece guy probably because They missed the boat on the Girardi uh Deal and they kind of unhinged and Factually uh false reporting and so what The heck I figure and by the way it uh I've I've known these reporters for
Years and it was really disconcerting uh To see them kind of cross the line from Just bad uh crappy journalism if you Will to malicious reporting so out of Curiosity so you used that term very Specifically malicious reporting are you Suing them for defamation yes And you know and you know as an attorney That is an incredibly hard case to win Mark I mean because as you pointed out You use that word specifically you have To prove malicious intense not simply Being wrong but they were they were out To get Mark aragos and and I've got the I've got the goods I got the receipts so Trust me I would not have I've got Plenty of businesses you know will and The last thing I need is uh some flight Of fancy this was uh this was over the Top this was malicious and I'm looking Forward to showing it All right Mark um I want I'm excited to Talk to you about many things and you Know you and I have spoken a few times Sparingly over the years I was impressed When I met you in the Green Room for uh Gutfeld that you remember coming on the Will Kane Show on ESPN2 I think if I Remember correctly make a failed Argument in my face about Colin Kaepernick but that's okay that's water Under the bridge and you were up against A formidable formidable opponent there On the Wilkin show so uh no I'm glad to
Have you and I'm glad you've already You've already compared our law degrees So I'll uh you know what's funny I did Say right before this uh this podcast Roll that our our law degrees are worth The same amount and I could have Anticipated you took some offense at That because our bank accounts aren't Aren't the same so uh yeah I'm I'm still Aspiring to be a will pain level uhfs Right right right Um let's start Mark I don't know where We'll I don't know uh if and where we'll Have disagreement but I'm curious about Your perspective talk to me here we are We are soon to see a trump indictment by The time this publishes we probably will Have seen a booking for former president Donald Trump in New York City I have Mark I think most people who are coming At this I truly believe this is an a Factual statement here who are coming This from a non-partisan lens and and I Think also from a legal lens are looking At it well not it's Andrew Cuomo or Bill Barr Um and saying this is flimsy this is not A strong case for Alvin Bragg and Therefore it is political what is your Take Look I the trajectory of my career goes Back to the Whitewater uh investigation In the 90s I represented back then Susan McDougall in a in her uh quest to redeem
Herself and rehabilitate rehabilitate Herself against the office of Independent Council I used to say back Then and for those who don't remember Susan was the erstwhile business partner Of Bill and Hillary Clinton and if you Were to ask Sean Hannity where we saw Each other in the Green Room at Fox Sean Will remember that that was kind of the Beginnings of Fox News and and Sean's Involvement over there and we used to Get into battle royales about the what The independent Council was doing during The Whitewater investigation and I used To say turnabout is going to be a When you see what's happening because it May be going after President Clinton now But when the shoe was on the other foot So to speak you're going to see it and Sure enough that's what we see now my Opinion of this uh you know I'm sitting In the blue state hotbed of Anti-trumpism AKA downtown Los Angeles And I will tell you this it's a very Unpopular position but this case is I Called this a frankensteinian Um uh criminal uh prosecution and why do I say that they've taken misdemeanor Offenses which are these filing of Expense reports they've grafted that Onto and mind you I say this not having Seen the indictment but based on what's Reporting so you know I may have to come Back and and rehabilitate myself but
When you graph that onto the the Supposed what's being reported as a Cover-up Um and FEC violation that to me is a Bridge too far for a prosecutor though I Don't know what the prosecutor is doing In this case Mr Bragg I'm not the first One who has said that the FEC the Southern district doj Um have all passed on this actually Mr Bragg's predecessor uh Sai Vance passed On this and I do not think and I will Make the prediction now that I did back In the 90s when I was on the other side So to speak that what you will see is Exactly what uh we have seen in the last Couple of days which is are people on The right saying okay Red State local Prosecutors it's your turn now to indict XYZ which are Democrats and that's where We're going to go it's obvious to me Yeah and the predicate on that that Analogy which I did in the last episode Of the will Kane podcast is build a case Against for example say hunter or Joe Biden based upon flimsy evidence on a Misdemeanor charge that's passed its Statute limitations and you'll see Exactly as Mark garrigo just said Turnabout is a uh hey Mark have You ever I mean look you you know as you Were laying that out I thought to myself And look I don't like it when people Look into others motivations rather than
It's just my analysis is separated from My own feelings I mean I used to always Say that when I was on ESPN you're Always peering into my soul trying to See who I am and I'm just telling you Exactly what I think based upon the Facts but it occurred to me you know What more than partisan Mark is a Criminal defense attorney have you I Mean and this is going to be a layup for You but do you see every case through The lens of a criminal defendant do you Ever see every case through the lens of Reasonable Doubt do you see every case Through the lens of prosecutorial Um prosecutorial abuse well I I think That I do I always will say that I will Um I will preface if you will but look I'm a criminal defense lawyer I'm proud Of it I think criminal defense lawyers You know people often talk about healing To the Constitution whether you're on The right or the left the criminal Defense lawyers Even though they they off times get a Bad rap are the ones who hold the the Government accountable to the Constitution that's why you will find I I have seen at least in the last five or Six years you have seen kind of a flip You have seen criminal defense lawyers Who like me or Alan dershowitz or others Who were always good liberal Democrats Now kind of flipping the script the the
Party the Republican party that used to Be the party of Law and Order now is the Party of holding prosecutors accountable And calling them the task one and we Think there's misconduct the Democrats Who used to you know as I was growing up The Democrats used to be the ones who Were who were throwing brick bracks at Uh at law enforcement and now are the Chief champions of law enforcement it's Quite a pendulum swing in a generation And a half you know that's really really Fascinating Mark I think we've gone Through over the past decade and it's Not discussed enough we've gone through A swing in the pendulum a change in the Political parties that doesn't fit Traditional Republican and Democrat Definitions but I've never thought about It through the legal prism where and you Bring up dershowitz as well where you Are dershowitz now see that the Democrats are the party I don't want to Say of Law and Order because I don't Think that's true I think that you look At these prosecutors in many cases who Are getting softer on sentencing but They're becoming the party Mark of Um and maybe always were But Blind Faith In government and now we see that Blind Faith applied through all systems don't Question power whether or not that's That's health authority power whether or Not that's mayoral power in your city
There in Los Angeles or or that's in the Justice system it's as though the Default mechanism of Democrats at this Point is trust in have faith ye in Government but take a look at one of the Things that I did you know I might Practice even though I'm I'm primarily Known for criminal defense and that's Kind of my first love because it's Fighting over people's Liberty we've Done quite a bit we've shifted to Probably 80 percent civil in the last Three years I've been fighting the Battle against these covered lockdowns Four restaurants four uh people who were Put out of business business Interruption insurance against the covet And the denial of covet against Insurance companies and it is shocking To me what has happened to the the kind Of the establishment if you will that at Least in California in my career over 40 Years has completely shifted to complete Deference to unelected bureaucrats to Make the policy decisions that you used To hold our elected officials to now we Have this situation where you know in This in L.A County we've got a woman who Is a I don't even know if I know she's Not medically trained but Barbara Ferrar She is the head of the county health Department and it was issuing edicts and One of the restaurant decisions where we Had won at the trial court level and
They took it up to the court of appeal The court of appeal actually ruled that We have to defer to the unelected health Authorities and base that on a U.S Supreme Court case from over 120 years Ago which absolutely was before the Levels of constitutional scrutiny so it Is mind-boggling if you're in the Trenches what has happened to our Constitutional framework just in the Last 10 to 15 years I want to ask you About a couple of specific cases Mark But I'm my curiosity is Peak you know And so my father listen I was headed Down the path I don't know of Mark Garagos but I was headed down the path Of probably seeking criminal defense Work because I loved the idea it was Supposed to be garrigus and Kane and Then what happened What happened was I don't know Mark There was a different path for me but I You know you laid it out very eloquently And the reason why was one superficial And Too Deep superficial I wanted to be In a courtroom and that's how you got to A courtroom and number two is I do Believe that criminal defense is what You just said it is the bulwark for Constitutional rights and my dad was Um not not a criminal defense lawyer he Was a small town attorney so but most of His work was civil he was a plaintiffs Attorney and he saw his role in life as
The champion of the little man and I Imagine that's kind of how you see yours As well like you are the champion of the Individual against what used to be I Think on the left this idea of Corporatism but it's not just that Anymore what I'm it's not just the Government pendulum that is swung I Think Mark it's Republicans and Conservatives who are now more skeptical Of Corporations than Democrats that was A role when I was growing my dad used to Say I hate the corporation by the way he Was socially conservative but voted Democrat to protect his contingency fee In tort law but Um you know it was a very astute guy But um don't you not think the same Thing has happened when it comes to not Just the public side but the Civil side As well when it comes to views on Corporations I mean it's Democrats also Have lost their skepticism of corporate America it's it's kind of a Schizophrenic uh nature on one hand and You know you hit on it with Progressive DA's which is the term that is used I Mean we're sitting in a county where George cascom is is viewed as a Progressive D.A and at the same time People who Um who Champion that and you know There's a lot of good things Um that come out of that there's a lot
Of I mean part of the Crim my complaints About the criminal justice system for Decades have been kind of this Warehousing of people who are on drugs And and this idea of the War on Drugs But at the same time that people have That for some reason there's this kind Of blinding childlike naivete and faith On our side of the aisle as to the Righteousness of the government and the Righteousness and God forbid that you Question authority or that you question The FBI or you question you know all of The things that I got into criminal Defense to do which was cross-examine a Law enforcement challenge law Enforcement and to be skeptical of this Idea that you know the older the old Joke about knocking on the door and Saying it's the government we're here to Help remember that remember that old Expression it almost seems quaint at This point Yeah that's the Reagan said those are The scariest words in the English Language I'm from the government and I'm Here to help uh by the way Um I'm I'm I think it probably worked Out for the best because had I taken That path we would have had a fight I Would have won and it would have been Kane and garagos not not garagos and Kane although you had the chance to Establish you know you tried to make us
The same age a moment ago you would have Been well in practice by the time that I Joined your firm so and then you would Have been pushing me out to pass I understand what was going on you know I I have my sources inside of ESPN and Fox thank you right the lay of the land For you Please share it with me after this Podcast Um uh so again I want to save a few Minutes to talk about a couple of cases But last sort of philosophical question On on what it means to be mark garagos Look as much as I honor and I do Um the the very eloquent way in which You lined out the Constitutional Grounding of your job I also know and This is is not to undercut your job it's Just to be the realist that the vast Majority of people that are availed Inside of the criminal justice system Are guilty that you are looking to Protect the aberration the innocent in The face of the accusation of guilt the Vast majority of time the accusation of Guilt Gil curit Lane why though why Why thoroughly disagree but let me Explain why I mean I'll take a take a Homicide case yeah which is you know Traditionally people say the most Serious case in the criminal justice
System you can have and I've had run the Entire gamut you can have you're a dead Body and you can have at the hands of Another and yes it happened but is that The end of the inquiry was it Self-defense was it Innovative passion Did it negate the malice that was Murdered so that it was manslaughter so Somehow the system has to deal with that Otherwise how do you deal with Situations where Um there's stand your ground or castle Doctrine or things of that nature and How does somebody by the way who's a Fierce uh proponent of the Second Amendment at the same time say no I Don't want to distinguish the idea Between first second manslaughter or Self-defense or justifiable homicide so Even in the most serious cases you still Need somebody you need somebody who's Willing to stand up and say no time out We're going to have we're going to have The system and we're going to have a due Process to determine whether somebody Was justified whether they were Reasonable and whether this act was Something that we should condemn or Condone absolutely and I agree with that 100 and it's in the in the game is set Up so that it is all the weight of the Government all the resources all the Manpower is on the side of that one Accusing accusing someone else of guilt
And it is it is an individual effort to Protect those individual rights on the Other side but here was the deeper place I wanted to go okay have you in your Career because as opposed to the shallow Place that I was dwelling so I caught That so I know what I'm dealing with Um you know I know I know Los Angeles Magazine probably has some fashion Spreads you've got to get to approving Here as soon as we can get out of this Conversation exactly and the travel the Travel issues right well they pay the Bills uh and what I want to ask you is Do you over your career in facing all of This you know the percentages of guilt Um the worst of humanity in many cases And things that they've done and I'm not Singling out any and but separate from That you've dealt with Jesse Smollett You've dealt with Michael Jackson you've Dealt with many Do you have more or less faith in Humanity in human nature at this point In your career than when you started Yes I do have more faith and I will tell You why it's interesting you bring that Up I mean I always tell the example at One point I was representing Scott Peterson who I don't know if you Remember but yes probably the most hated Man in America at the same time that I Was handling Michael Jackson and I used To joke that and it was a jokingly was
Because of the way I told it but it was True when I was representing Scott Peterson the website crashed most people Were praying I would get cancer when I Was representing and it was announced That it was Michael Jackson I had people Just cheering me on so to speak and I Have that to even to this day I mean There are people who uh representing Colin Kaepernick as you mentioned are Cheering me on others hate me and I've Got some of the hate mail taped to my uh To in my office on the wall at the same Time the Tate brothers who were just Freed last Friday right our office Represents Andrew and Tristan in Romania There's local Council there but we were Kind of quarterbacking it and there are People who are you know you you hear all About that they're misogynist blah blah Blah but they have a contingency in a Demographic that uh that adore them and And are very supportive so I it's a long Answer to this yes it shows you that Part of what I've learned is there is Always that prism through which you look At whether it's mine is a criminal Defense lawyer yours is a uh the son of A uh a plaintiff's lawyer who's now made It to the big time and cashing all those Checks but we always look at life that Way I'll tell you where the most Dangerous place and the most cynical you Can get is not in the criminal law it's
And I say this seriously it's family law That's where oh yes that's where lawyers Get killed that's where judges get Killed that's where people lose their Minds and I've got friends who are going Through it and it's the most awful thing To watch but if you were to do family Law I don't know how you'd practice for More than 25 years because then you Could get really cynical oh Mark I've Heard that before yes you know the most Miserable law to deal with is is people Getting divorced in child custody it's The ugliest part it's ugly um never it Never works the lawyers drain you of Your of every liquid asset and then you End up settling at the same point so in Fact it's funny my my ex-partner who's Now a judge when she was first assigned In the courthouse and she's still there In the Family Law Department the Presiding judge told me the reason I put Her there is I knew you would never You'd never step foot in front of her And I said you're absolutely right All right I've only got a few minutes Left with you because I know you got to Go Bill some hours maybe for somebody or Something like that so I'm going to ask I work on contingency nothing you hate Faster than a lawyer Lawyer by the hour my dad used to have a Uh in his office he had a a old west six Shooter mounted with bullets underneath
It and he said it said underneath had a Plaque that said gunfighters don't Charge by the bullet he was he didn't he Not only took pride in his contingency Fees he looked down upon the hourly uh Attorney well I will tell you I and I do My father I tell this joke all the time My father for the first 13 years I was Alive was a hard charging homicide Prosecutor and I thought my first name Was Dumb and my middle name was Because that's all he ever called me but He used to when people would come in and When he was practicing as long as I have Now and they would say I just want you To write a letter and he'd quote him Some fee and they'd say why is it so Much and he said and he said it'll only Take you an hour to write that letter He'd say it took me 40 years and an hour To write that letter right right Um okay so when the time we have left I Want to ask you about two cases um let's Talk about the tape Brothers really Quickly I know nothing about Romanian Law Romanian due process I I mean how Could I and I I really wonder how much How well-versed you could get in that What can you tell us about the Tate Brothers Um I'm somewhat familiar obviously I Know who Andrew Tate is I know he's he You know my my sons will tell me about Andrew Tate he's that he's that famous
You know Um but I I'm roughly familiar with the Accusation with the charges but I have No idea on the Justice in Romania well Let me tell you something as of this Month April he they have now been Investigated in Romania for a year this Investigation has not led to charges in Romania they have a what is translated Literally to a preventative arrest where They can detain you in 30-day increments While they do an investigation and Andrew and Tristan were were subject to This not once not twice but three times Finally the Appellate Court released Them basically and said look if you Don't have the charges by now we're not Going to just keep somebody in Communicato in a Romanian prison until You get it together so to speak and they Had at all times they meaning the Prosecution had the text messages where In the two of these so-called uh victims And that's a legal conclusion but we're Texting that the stuff to the effect That this was was a setup and the the Prosecutors knew that and so they've Been trying mightily since for the last Year who come up with charges which they Have not done and finally within the Last 72 hours they've been released and They look forward to vindicating Themselves will charges come in Romania The charges we've heard about is what is
Kidnapping and extortion and uh human Trafficking human trafficking what needs To be what what people need to know is They have not been charged all of this Was what's called a preventative arrest Which is something as for whatever brick Press you want to throw at the the Criminal justice system in America we Don't have that Will they be charged I don't think so I Mean certainly based on what I've seen So far that would be even a bigger Miscarriage of Justice okay lastly Although you don't I don't think you Have you never know with Mark Gary goes You don't have direct a tie-in to the Co-burger murders in um in Idaho you Have commented on this and I and correct Me if I'm wrong Mark but you you see What looks like from the outside a Pretty I think it looks like authorities Took their time they gathered their Evidence they put it in order before Making an arrest do you already see some Holes in the prosecution's case I Actually do and I I don't have anything To do with it I rarely will take a state Court case out of state I will do Federal virtually anywhere and obviously International but state court is its own Unique animal its own unique culture and I will tell you that based on what I've Seen in the affidavit it's been heavily Redacted but based on what I've seen
There is a lot for the defense to work On there and work with and I I think it Will well I will tell you that that one Of the things that struck me immediately Is that they have all of the phone Records and I've been in this Triangulation of cell phone records for 20 years now The introduction of it I've actually Exculpated I've freed people from Custody and death penalty cases based on Phone records one of the interesting Thing about Kohl Burger is they did not Have phone records that put him at the Scene during the time in fact it didn't Show any movement during the time of the Phone so what did the prosecution do the Prosecution says well that's because he Must have turned his phone off well Under that kind of logic you can never Win either you've got a phone that shows Where you are or and it exculpates or Inculpates you or you don't have it and They this you can't prove a negative you Can't prove the negative it's exactly Right look at you look at you passing Your LSAT you should have you should Have hired me you would have renamed the Firm We would have arm wrestled for that Media Mogul attorney Mark garagos man I Really appreciate the time I hope we can Do this again I have more you know Esoteric questions I want to ask you in
More cases to discuss I hope we can be Together again I I hope so too thanks Will thanks Mark hey it's Will Kane Click here to subscribe to the Fox News Channel on YouTube it's the best way to Get our latest interviews and highlights And click to subscribe to the will Kane Podcast for full episodes right now
